Winterfest (Bedecon) is fast approaching and the theme this
year is the Winter War on the East Front 44-45. So it’s time to start trying to
come up with some ideas.
When Bede first proposed Winterfest last year my first reaction
was to take Cossacks. I’ve now got Red Bear so I’m starting to go through some
ideas:
Option 1: Cossacks
Guards Cossacks- FT
- · HQ 35
- · 2x Mt Cossack Platoons 205
- · 3x Dismounted Cossack Platoons - x HMG 275
- · Regimental Gun Platoon: 4x Zis 2 185
- · Tank Killer Company: 4x M10s 250
- · Cossack Tankovy Company: 8x Valentines 260
- · Guards Heavy Tanks: 3x JS II- 3x AA MG 420
- 3x M 16 MGMC AA Halftracks 120
1750
Option : Scouts instead of the AA.
Option 2:
Motostelkovy.
Mostostrelkovy get a pretty bad rap and many people think
there are far better (read more competitive) way to run Soviets but they do
have some advantages:
- · Lots of interesting support choices so it really is a flexible force.
- · All infantry are armoured with SMGs
So I am very tempted to run motostrelkovy but pinning down
what to put into it is far harder than I originally thought. However, the whole
point of the army is to take SU 76s so they are a must have unit.
My main issues?
- 1. Size of motostrelk companies: Some players on the Bf forums seem to be recommending single platoon companies (representing worn down companies) but I think a 2 platoon company dug in and supported by Zis 2s could be hard to shift off an objective but also have some survivability going forward.
- 2. Tank support: T45/85 are a good all rounder unit, IS 2s or IS 85s, or even ISU 122s- I just like the look of the ISU 122.
- 3. High end AT: ISU 122s or SU 100s in this role.
- 4. Red army or Guards (confident or fearless?) the main difference being a slight difference in company size.
A couple of options are as follows:
Red Army Motostrelkovy
(CT)
- · HQ 30
- · 8x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 130
- · 15x Motostrelkovy (SMG) + HMG 265
- · 9x Razvedki- M3A1s (FT) 205
- · 5x T34/85s- AT 12 (cupolas) 400
- · 4x 57mm AT guns- AT 11 155
- · 4x SU 100- AT 16 310
- · 4x SU 76- AT 9 150
- · 3x Spetnez- (FT) 100
o
Total 1745
Guards Motostrelkovy
(FT)
- · HQ 35
- · 8x Motostrelkovy (SMG), 1x HMG, Kom 195
- · 8x Motostrelkovy (SMG), Kom 155
- · 9x Razvedki- M3A1s 205
- · 4x 57mm AT guns- AT 11 180
- · 3x IS-85 385
- · 4x SU 100 345
- · 4x SU 76 (CT) 150
- · 3x Spetnez- (FV) 100
1750
At this stage I'm
leaning towards the Motostrelkovy, its not the meanest force round but has the potential
to be effective if used properly. So I guess my main issues are:
- 1. 5x T34/85s or 3x IS-85s (no Hens & Chicks)
- 2. 3x ISU 122 or 4x SU 100
- 3. 2x min strength companies, or 1x 2 platoon & 1x 1 platoon.
I need a few practice games so sort out options
Craig
What are the LW Rota like? I dont have LW books but like Rota in MW.
ReplyDeletecheers
Hi Craig. Lots of different options in those CT Soviet lists and I've always found the Razvedki plt to be enough to recommend the motostrelk.
ReplyDeleteHq 2plt & kom+ 1plt + razvedki + 5 su-76 + 4 su-122 + 5 IS-2 + spetsnaz fits 1750 and while 'different' does bring in your Sukas.
I think that the points allow a few possibilities but my resction on seeing the new points was that I think small T-34 units are costly for what you get so I think they Suit FD or Razvedki better than strelk or motostrelk. I quite like the IS-2 now and think that backing them with SUs can work for motostrelk as the razvedki can provide the mobile mgs they lack. Also heavy mortars seem a steal but I like the idea of heaps of mobile stuff.
I really enjoy the MW Razvedki, one of my favourite MW Soviet lists.
ReplyDeleteThe new JS II points are very tempting Jamie, a lot cheaper than in the past. The SU 100s provide great bang for the buck now too, I should have a pltoon of them next week all going well.
5x JS IIs- that is very, very cool.
Have you tried it?
Craig
Hq 2plt & kom+ 1plt + razvedki + 5 su-76 + 4 su-122 + 5 IS-2 + spetsnaz fits 1750
ReplyDeleteYou could drop 1 IS-2? Then add AAMGs + either 4x 120mm mortars,or 6 x 82mm mortars+obs,gets you to 8 pltatoons.Have you tried,2 x 1plt Motostrelks coys + a full sapper coy?
LES
I was wondering that myself Lap1964 but out of just about everything in that list, the IS-2s are the one thing I think you DON'T want to short IMO. Easy Army tells me that six heavy mortars is 130? At that price I'd want to have the reroll so so they even start to be worth trying to scare tanks with.
ReplyDeleteThe 'theory' is that while the IS-2 has its shortcomings, many of these can be overcome by numbers and that at the new points I think the numbers are now worth taking. There have always been things that even just the three worked against but I think five is at the point where German player are going to seriously regret being 'clever' and taking those RT/CT Panthers... All theory though, Craig. Have barely played V3 LW at all. I was going to give Jeff a game a while back and the JS-2s went in the list right after I put my Razvedki plt in though, FWIW.
Is Bedecon Axis vs Allies Craig? Some of what makes me want all that IS-2 redundancy is the allied AT-13 suite.
ReplyDeleteI’ve started playtesting some ideas as solo games. I’m not sure why but I’m not so keen on sappers with this one, if I took them it would be instead of the razvedki and I find the ATP platoon too damn handy to consider dropping.
I agree that massed JS 2s are very god value now Jamie, and pretty good value but would probably do as Lap suggests and take 4- I always want another platoon of something or other soa laways end up diluting my main combat strength.
These motostrelkovy are harder to get list I like than I originally thought they would be, simply there are so many fun combination possible.
Yes, it is Soviets vs Axis for the weekend so should be great- though the Gerans too have plenty of counters to JS IIs. Below is something random I came up with last night.
Motostrelkovy (CT)
HQ 35
15x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 240
8x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 130
9x Razvedki- M3A1s- FT 205
4x JS 1- 2x AAMG (FT-Guards) 545
4x SU 85 240
4x SU 76 150
4x Heavy Mortars 105
3x Spetnez 100
1750
It is a simple swap for the Heavy mortars and Spetnez for limited sturmoviks too. Or dropping the Sukas gets th Zis 2- which I do like as a high RoF counter to medium tanks and half tracks.
Craig
I agree finding a good Motostrelkovy list is hard,because of all the choices you have! So here's another list for you?
ReplyDeleteMotostrelkovy (CT)
HQ 35
15x Motostrelkovy(SMG)+ Kom 255
8x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 130
9x Razvedki- M3A1s- FT 205
4x IS-2 4x AAMG (FT-Guards) 560
4x SU-122 170
4x ZIS-2 155
6x Heavy Mortars+Obs 145
3x Spetnez 100
1750
LES
PS:posted the list here as the BF site is down ATM.
I think that vs Germans only there is some pretty cheap AT 16 so the big JS unit isn't as cool, since you will be hiding vs some matchups anyway. Even just the three can be vey versatile with tank escorts. If you haven't got the big JS unit then IMO you are back to considering either some ISUs or SU100s to beef up the AT.
ReplyDeleteSeems a shame not to have the sukas btw - you are always talking about them, just take them! :p
You know you aren't making this any easier Lap- some great ideas!
ReplyDeleteMy SU 100s turned up today.
But yes sukas need to be included, it would be wrong not to have them!
Craig
Craig
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to use SU-100/SU-85M,what are you thinking of dropping ?
LES
PS:Sorry about making things harder,but there are so many options with the Motostrelk list
Hi Craig - an example of what I might do vs just Germans (but with SU-76s for you, I would of course take SU-122s, if I were taking a non iron man force):
ReplyDeleteHQ; 2plt; 1plt; full heavy mortar w obs; Spetsnaz; 4 su100; 5su76; 3 JS2. The JS unit is now less fearsome but even three can be v useful and I actually prefer SUs for shooting at enemy tanks, despite all their issues.
Its good to get ideas from other mototrelk fans Lap. It certainly has lots of options/ possibilities.
ReplyDeleteLast night I settle on something I am happy with which is similar to your idea Jamie but decided to drop the Spetnez.
Motostrelkovy (CT)
HQ 35
15x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 240
8x Motostrelkovy (SMG) 130
9x Razvedki- M3A1s- FT 205
3x JS 2- 3x AAMG (FT-Guards) 420
4x SU 100 310
4x SU 76 150
4x 57mm AT 160
4x 120mm Mortars 95
1745
Will see how it goes
Craig